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Post by jamie on May 26, 2018 5:55:22 GMT
I hope I've come to the right place for this. I don't know if I'm overthinking this whole thing or if it's a warning sign. I was in an abusive (mostly psychological but occasionally physical) marriage for 7 years, which I've been out of for nearly 3. I have been dating someone for just over a year now. He was warm and loving, easygoing and he laughed easily which really drew me to him. He was the polar opposite of my ex-husband who was very much type A, ambitious and focused but couldn't stand anything out of place or things not going his way. The last couple of years, he didn't need to hit me at all, he could terrify me with just a look. He once wrapped his belt around my neck and told me never to forget until death do us part. I truly believed that was the only way I was going to get out out. It wasn't until he put me in the hospital that I was able to escape.
But on to the reason I'm here. My family recently held a reunion and I brought my partner to introduce him to my extended family members. They all loved him and several people stopped me on the way out to tell me he was wonderful and how happy they were for me. They said I was glowing and it was like night and day from when I was with my ex-husband. And truthfully it felt that way as well. I never felt like I could relax with my ex but with my current partner, I haven't even had to think about it. It just comes naturally. But what they don't know, what no one knows really, except for me, is that underneath the friendly, inviting face he puts on, he suffers from social anxiety. He's in counseling and has been prescribed anti-anxiety medication that he takes as-needed, which seems to help him. He takes it when he knows he's going to have to be around a lot of people and it relaxes him just enough to get through these events. At one point at the reunion, my sister and some of my female cousins asked if they could steal me away for a little bit of girl talk. We were all very close growing up. I could see he was uncomfortable and I was going to tell them no but he told me to go on. I told him I'd be back in a few minutes. It was more like 1/2 an hour. I just lost track of time. I apologized but he told me everything was okay and I decided to believe him because one of the things left over from my marriage is that I second guess myself CONSTANTLY. So one of the things I'm working on is to take him at his word when he tells me how he's feeling, because he's never given me a reason not to.
Later that night when we got back home, he was quiet, which he tends to be after a night out, but this was different. He seemed especially tense. I asked him if he was sure he was okay and he thought for a moment and finally told me that he was just very uncomfortable while I was gone and he wished I had paid closer attention to the time. I told him I was sorry. It was his first time meeting my family and I shouldn't have left him alone for that long knowing he has that anxiety. I told him I'd be more mindful in the future. He seemed to relax quite a bit after that and we spent most of the evening talking and laughing like we normally do. After we went to bed, he wanted to make love which I'm always up for but he was being rough which isn't normal for him. I asked him what he was doing and he slapped me on the backside--not hard but I definitely felt it--and he said he had to teach me a lesson for leaving him alone. I laughed. I'm not sure why, maybe out of shock or discomfort, I don't know, but it wasn't because I was amused. Then he slapped me again and laughed too. And he kept going, with my arms pinned down until I told him to let them go because they were starting to hurt and he did right away. The confusing part for me is that it didn't feel "bad" at the time. In fact (and I don't mean to be crude or offend anyone, this is just how it felt at the moment) it turned me on. But I woke up early the next morning thinking about it and I couldn't get back to sleep. I started questioning whether the whole teaching me a lesson thing was really just a joke or if he was actually trying to subtly send me a message. And then I began feeling guilty for getting off on it. Like after everything my ex put me through, including getting way too rough in bed, there must be something wrong with me for getting any level of enjoyment out of it. And if he was being serious, then why would he have told me more than once that he was over what happened at the reunion? He's never been dishonest with me about his feelings; not that I'm aware of anyway. When I talked with him about it later, he told me that he was under the impression that I was having a good time and understood he was only kidding. He said if he had known it was going to trouble me this much he never would have done it, but he's not a mind reader either. He insisted he really wasn't mad about the reunion. So that leaves me wondering if I am overreacting. I thought he's right, I mean, how could he have known? He smacked me and told me he was going to teach me a lesson and I laughed, what else would he think? He said he was sorry promised he wouldn't do anything like that again--unless I want him to (haha). I want to believe that he really didn't mean anything by it and I do think that is the case, but then that other part of me can't let it go, I keep replaying it over and over again, analyzing it and re-analyzing it. Second-guessing myself and my feelings, like I always do. I don't know...I don't think it's a red flag necessarily but there were a lot of things with my ex that looking back were red flags and I just couldn't see them at the time or chose to explain them away.
What do you all think?
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karen
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"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518 
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Post by karen on May 26, 2018 18:50:44 GMT
Hey Jamie..hi and welcome here! I think you came to the right place and here is why I believe this. I am in a similar relationship to what you are experiencing. I was married for 20 years, dated him for 6 before we got married. I left him after realizing that how he was treating me was not right and I was fed up with his crap (very long story, didn't know it was abuse at that point). I met a guy online who was charming, handsome, I truly thought I had met "Prince Charming"..I fell in love instantly. We had a lot of chemistry. TURNS out..very long story, that he was more abusive than my now ex-husband. I learned my ex-husband was abusive after being significantly abused by the new boyfriend. Who, btw, now is an ex boyfriend (he has gotten married since he kicked me out of his house 3 years ago). I now have a new boyfriend. I have been with him for 3 years. AND I am back in counselling because I am "terrified" that I am in another abusive relationship..or at least one with all the same behaviors as someone who is abusive. I have been "triggered" so many times over the past 3 years..I am at a point now where I do not trust myself at this point to determine if the red flags are legitimate. I am slowly coming to the conclusion that even though I am not being abused (not walking on eggshells, no threats from him, no accusations, no hitting, no name calling) I am in a relationship that is not as satisfying to me as I would like. My guy now didn't "spank" me..but he has done SEVERAL similar things like he sent me a text which was a picture of him "giving me the finger"..it was his finger. He laughed and thought it was hilarious. I went into a panic and thought I was back in another abusive relationship. It took everything I had to tell him how offended and "triggered" I was. He apologized profusely and has not done it since. BUT there have been so MANY other things that are similar in nature. He also is extremely "introverted"..he has terrible social anxiety, he is a wallflower, he never shows any emotion (he has a flat expression as a way to protect himself from getting hurt), he too is a product of being abused by his mother and he claims his ex-wives (he has 2) both have abused him. He has been in counselling for over 4 years and he is showing definite growth. My guy can irritate me to no end, he thinks things are funny that I think are just flat out wrong. He has heard and listened and changed his behavior to every complaint or concern I have brought up. He is extremely negative and has a real hard time seeing the positive in things. We have been working really hard at trying to make this relationship work. We didn't have to try hard in the beginning. BUT the red flags keep coming up. I am not sure if I am going to continue this relationship or not. I have been really afraid of "missing red flags" or explaining them away. In fact, I have gone to the other extreme to make sure I ASK about everything he does. He never seems to get tired of me asking for clarification. I on the other hand, have become very good at expressing my dislike when I feel like I am not being treated right. YOU ARE NOT OVERREACTING..please don't talk yourself into thinking this is all in your head. My therapist is helping me tremendously to get through all this. WHAT WE ARE FEELING is real and valid. It is not your imagination. My ex husband used to tell me CONSTANTLY that he was teaching me a lessen and everything he did was because I wouldn't learn it. My now guy feels the need to be "in charge" as he is the man! I tell him "no"..this is a "We" not an "I". He just keeps doing and saying things that resemble what I was in before. Yet, I don't feel afraid, I am not on eggshells, I am just annoyed. So what is the answer? For me, it is counselling to help me figure out if this is really what I want in my relationship. My therapist talks of how men have the need to be "in charge", but not necessarily abusive. I told my new guy that one thing I would not do is keep stuff bottled up inside, I call him out every time he does something I don't like. He and I are out of town together this weekend and we just left this morning, he has irritated me 3 times already today. I told him what he was doing. He has kept quiet ever since. There are moments I am telling myself "He gets one more chance, if he says or does something that annoys me or triggers me one more time, I am done". I have been self-analyzing my thoughts for the past 5 months. I am not convinced I am going to stay in this relationship. AND I love this guy. He has some really nice redeeming qualities that I like. I feel that he loves me..but I feel like he needs to do some things different. I have vowed NEVER to be abused again. I fully admit to be terrified of "ever after". I am not ready for "forever" with my guy or any guy for that matter. My guy and I don't want to get married, we won't live together..mostly because I can't stand the thought of sharing my space with another guy. I am not ready for any of that. I am ready for him and I to be good friends, we are. We share our thoughts, we laugh a lot, we have several same interests, we enjoy spending time together (for the most part), we both LOVE time to ourselves..we need to recharge alone and we both give each other the space to do that. We care about each other. My guy has ADHD..I am learning how to be with someone who has that. His mother is abusive..and he acts like her sometimes. He is in counselling to deal with all that. We give each other space. AND we have really different opinions at times. We aren't always in sync. It messes us up sometimes. It is usually him just being annoying and me being triggered by his annoyances. He does yoga and meditates..i meditate, i do yoga when I can, we are both into trying to heal and be better humans. And I like that he supports me in healing. What you are thinking and feeling is very valid. AND it is OK to feel the way you are feeling. You are not crazy, you are smart, you are cautious, and you are determine to learn from the past so history does not repeat itself. Even good guys may not always be the best guys for us. All ABUSERS are BAD..but not all Bad Guys are ABUSIVE. Also, LUNDY BANCROFT wrote a great book called "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" and Steve McCrea (he posts here occasionallY) wrote "JERK RADAR". Both really good books to help figure out if a relationship is good. We are being triggered, it has been over 4 years since I left my now ex-husband, but there is still some "residual" stuff left over. It takes time to heal. Give yourself permission to heal, to take care of you, to listen to your gut (even though I believe my gut is confused too). My guy insists he isn't made either. He says he gets what I am concerned about, he usually apologizes and makes great efforts to not do that issue again. He is trying and he listens and he keeps wanting to be with me. He isn't possessive he isn't jealous, he just does things that are impulsive and wrong. You are OK Jamie..you are right in how you feel. No one can take that away from you. Let me know what you think? I am still trying to figure it all out too! I read your post and thought we were dating the same guy!! LOL  |
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Post by jamie on May 28, 2018 16:03:52 GMT
Hi Karen,
Wow...they do sound similar. This is the first time mine has done anything that seriously "triggered" me but he does make say and do things in a joking manner that make me stop and think "Is he really only joking?" And I do feel safe talking with him about those things and I think he does try not to do them again. He was not abused as a child, but he was raised in a household where his parents had very traditional roles and his dad was very much the head of the household and controlled the money--though he says he doesn't remember his mom ever having to ask for money, as his dad always made sure she had more than enough. So I think that's partly where that comes from. I've told him outright I would never tolerate that again but he has joked about it in the past. It has been a long time though...several months. That's why this last incident took me by surprise. I guess I thought we were past this. Something happened around Christmas that triggered me really bad. It wasn't anything he did, it was something I did. His washing machine bit the dust so I told him to bring over his clothes--this was before we lived together--and I'd wash them for him. Somehow I got a red shirt in with the whites. I wash whites in hot water, so the red shirt stained the entire load. When I realized what I'd done I completely broke down crying and shaking and when he asked what was wrong, I couldn't even get the words out. He finally looked inside the washing machine and when he reached for me, I about jumped out of my skin. I think that was the first time he realized how seriously my ex-husband's abuse had affected me and has been a lot more mindful of what he says and does. Until that night. I don't know what he was thinking.
Thank you for letting me know that what I'm feeling is valid. It's hard not to wonder if I'm overreacting. I am still in counseling twice a month so I'll see her this week. I'm seriously thinking of going back more often though. I really love my boyfriend and 99% of the time he's a dream, it's just that 1% of the time when he does things that remind me of my ex, even though I don't think it's intentional--time will tell if it is--and I have to decide if I can live with that. I know no relationship is going to be perfect and I know I can't change that part of him; I know he has to want to do it himself.
It's just hard to deal with sometimes. I feel like the damage my ex did is going to be with me forever. I hate always being on alert, questioning my boyfriend's motives, wanting to trust him completely, but knowing I can't. And I know it's hard for him. When something happens, he gets this look on his face, a combination of sadness, confusion, remorse and helplessness, like he wants to make things right but he doesn't know how. I know a year isn't very long and we're still figuring this stuff out. I do think we moved in together too soon, it was around the 10 month mark, and wonder if things would be different if we'd waited. I know it's not my fault, I don't think it's his fault, I know it's my BASTARD of an ex-husband's fault, but we're the ones left picking up the pieces and it's agonizing at times.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
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Post by karen on May 29, 2018 3:25:07 GMT
Hi Jamie, it sounds like your guy has some very "traditional" beliefs about men and women and relationships. My guy is the same way. His mother is abusive though and his father left when he was 14..couldn't stand his mother so the Dad left. My guy was hurt that his father left him and his siblings behind. He has never forgiven him and has no relationship with him now, even though his Dad has tried. My guy has some very "traditional" views also. And a very weird sense of humor.
I did that once with the laundry too..I threw in my clothes with his (he uses my washer and dryer as he doesn't have one) and my very bright pink shirt slightly rubbed off onto his all white laundry. He was really upset and told me he shouldn't have let me put stuff in with his. I honestly could not see the pink tint, it was that light. He was upset anyway. I got really upset and completely blamed myself for it. He stopped fussing and once he saw how upset I was, he said it wasn't a big deal. BUT..the trigger had already been done.
You are very right, it is very hard to let go and completely trust again. I haven't done it and I won't. My guy doesn't trust either, he has been terribly hurt and is still working through his stuff. One thing that gets me, is I really don't know what a "healthy relationship" is supposed to look like. I also don't know what it is like to be with someone who is genuine, I only know how to be in an abusive relationship. So, I am a work in progress. I don't trust "being in love"..I don't trust it when someone says they care. My guy tells me everyday that he loves me. For the most part I believe him, but I am not sure why he loves me and there is a part of me, that thinks he says it because I want to hear it, then part of me thinks he really does mean it.
My guy just doesn't always have the insight to realize that things he does and says can be taken in more than the way that he intends it.I keep telling him, that just because he means it one way, doesn't mean I take it that way. AND we talk about it and there are many times that we see things WAY differently..like polar opposites. We also have 2 very different ways of showing our love for each other. He is an "action" guy, I am words. He is not good at words, I am better at words than actions. We read a book called "The Five Love Languages", by Gary Chapman. We both have very different ideas of how we each show love and receive love. We have started to figure out what each other needs and how we both can be comfortable giving the other what they need and want. Even though I want to hear words and compliments, he is really NOT comfortable saying what he feels. He can joke, but he can't always be complimentary. It is a struggle and it affects our relationship. I have learned to speak up and say what I want and he has learned that there are other ways to doing something other than his way. He doesn't like this very much, but oh well, that is how I am . That is how his parents were, and my Dad was the same way. To him it was"my way or the highway". My guy knows that it is not his way or the highway..we are to find a way together that works for us both!
As for things moving quickly, the last boyfriend I had, I moved in with him 1 months after his wife moved out, and 4 months after he and I started talking online. DEFINITELY too fast. My guy..things moved too fast physically. We don't live together and that is because I still have a child at home. I also didn't want to live with anyone after being with the abuser who kicked me out 9 months after we moved in together. And because of my marriage. I have come to really ENJOY my quiet time for ME. My guy has too...it has become more important for us to not see each other so much and it has really worked out OK.
One thing I keep doing is challenging his thoughts and things he says and does. My guy really has a strong belief system about "how things should be". and I no longer believe in "shoulds" or traditional roles for men and women. That all went out the window with my marriage and the abusive rebound guy. So I am learning for the first time, what I and I stress "I", want in a relationship. And my gut reacts every time my new guy says something I don't like or don't agree with. AND he really has NO CLUE about what comes out of his mouth and how it affects others. He is getting better all the time. He knows he can easily sound like his mother and I tell him when he does and he doesn't like it. I don't put up with it. AND it causes tension between us. He tells me he wants to be told when he says something I don't like, not to just go along with him. So I do and I will keep doing it. Neither one of us is yet ready to stop trying. We both know we both have been through some pretty bad marriages and our parents weren't ideal and we have a lot of baggage.
We keep talking about it. I am not going to "settle" for annoying. AND my guy gets that. You are right, no relationship is perfect. One thing I have come to accept is that I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. AND I will tell him when I need something and when he is doing something RIGHT. He is starting to do the same for me. It is really changing how we look at relationships. AND I realize that it may take the rest of my life to figure out exactly what I want, and believe it or not, I am coming to a point where I am OK with that. I spent my whole 20''s wanting to get married..I married a guy with lots of red flags. I wanted a "happily ever after" and I did EVERYTHING I could to make that happen. I now know that maybe there is a lot of value in just liking someone and spending quality time with them. Once I stopped worrying about whether or not I should get married again or if I should commit to forever with my current guy, I felt like a ton of bricks was lifted off my shoulders.
I like having my own place. I like being completely independent..in charge of my own money, my car, my home, my belongings. I do not "need" my guy in my life. I can be alone and although I don't like being alone (meaning not in a relationship), I am ok if I have to go forward without him. AND this is probably me protecting myself from being hurt again by depending on men who literally almost broke me. Never again will I give anyone that opportunity. I am complete on my own.
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Post by been there on Jun 4, 2018 20:02:23 GMT
Hi Ladies,
Whoo boy - I have spent many years working through what you both are going through; in fact, I just finished my master's degree in Mental Health Counseling last month specifically to counsel people like "us."
These are my thoughts and observations to your stories. I hope they can be of use to you both:
We can't change other people. If we are being triggered by certain behaviors that that they are unconsciously doing, it's up to us to figure out why we are being triggered and to work through those emotions personally so we can learn how not to let them affect us negatively anymore. If their behaviors are due to the way they're wired, they're not going to change, and for us to expect them to is unfair to them, us, and the relationship. They're not doing anything wrong, they're just being themselves. If we don't think we can live with their behaviors, then it's time to end the relationship. If on the other hand, what they are doing is done deliberately to trigger you, then you know what to do...the relationship should end, because again, they're not going to change, in fact, they'll probably just get worse. We can't change other people. The only thing we can change is ourselves.
Most of our trigger issues have to deal with love and trust - and those start within ourselves. Until we can learn to love and trust ourselves we won't be able to love and trust others, and our relationships will suffer. It's amazing how differently a strong sense of self-esteem and self-confidence goes towards generating a healthy, balanced, loving and trusting relationship. You ladies nailed it when you both stated that you jumped into these relationships too quickly. You both have more healing that needs to be done before you should think about being in a relationship. Living the single life for a while is a wonderful thing - I did it for about 2-3 years and boy, what a difference it made in self-esteem and self-actualization. When the universe deemed I was ready, the right man came into my life and it made a world of difference! Ours was a loving, trusting, fun-filled relationship until he passed away. But I needed to work through my sh*t first otherwise it wouldn't have happened. I needed to learn how to love and trust myself first before I was able to receive and give those things back. It'll come for you, too, but it takes time and a lot of hard work to get to that point! It's worth it, though!
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janine
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Post by janine on Jun 4, 2018 20:51:15 GMT
jamie, you have my compassion. No wonder your partner's behavior triggered your trauma. It would have triggered mine, too. Or anyone else's for that matter. It is never ok to use sex, even 'jokingly' as punishment. You mentioned you feel safe to talk to him about this, and it sounds like you have already communicated your discomfort to him. It is ok (and necessary) to have boundaries and to insist your needs matter, because they do. And as far as the trauma etc. goes....if you haven't yet, sometimes (often) PTSD requires professional support. I know I would not have healed without therapy. That does not mean you HAVE to do it, as many people do fine without counseling as well. It really is up to each individual. You deserve the right tool kit for your healing path that fits your needs and preferences. And the ex husband....he is nothing but a worm. People like that in my mind are on the sociopathy spectrum. They will never get to feel what it is like to be freely loved, to be tender and caring and to make others feel SAFE around them. To me...that is one of the greatest losses and things we can miss out on as we experience our human life. It may not seem like it...but they are not happy and they are losing. Not us. It is not fair. I remember my therapist back then once told me "Janine, you cannot swing your sword of justice above (my abusive ex) his head forever. We do not live in a just world. Bad things happen to good people for no reason, and good things happen to bad people for no reason." I remember how angry that made...raging really...I had fantasies of scratching my exe's car up with a key and it took a long time to heal. I can promise you there comes a day when you truly digest it all. You will never forget it, but it won't affect you like this anymore. There is no urgency. You heal at your own pace, and it is ok to grieve. Grieve as long as the grief needs to do its work. We cannot control our grief, nor should we. Which is also why when anyone ever dares to tell you to "just get over it already" you send them to me and I will have word with them about trauma and recovery. oxoxoxoxxo We are here if you need an ear. I am proud of you for having the courage to open up. We humans really are not meant to do life alone, let alone something as hard as domestic violence and its aftermath. None of this was ever your fault. Your new partner has to accept you the way you are, because this is part of you. A good man will have the love to make you feel safe and heard and seen, again and again, as long as it takes until you feel safe. And even then, if doubts come up, you may want to check in with a community like this, or a DV hotline, or a counselor. It's ok to need others to validate and reassure you. We ALL need that at times. I sure did and still do. |
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